Last week, I attended the third monthly get-together of The Rosedale Club, an evening of Scotch, cigars, mandatory suits, and a discussion of “Aboriginal issues” with National Post editor/columnist Jonathan Kay.
A late addition to the bill was Cameron Monkman (aka Young Jibwe), who’d extended an offer to speak on the event’s Facebook page: “I don’t dress up in suits for nobody. You want a real speaker for the native community then count me in.”
I interviewed Zach Paikin – the most visible of the club’s three organizers – just as the event was getting under way. What follows is a slightly condensed and edited transcript of our conversation.
(Further below, you’ll find a transcript of Monkman’s remarks to the gathering.)
Goldsbie: How did you come up with the idea to do events of this particular nature?
Paikin: Well, we decided what was missing in many respects from people of our generation (but not exclusively people of our generation) was there was no real forum for in-depth conversation in Canada that meets on a regular basis and talks in-depth on issues of policy. There’s the Wednesday Night in Montreal, which – I lived in Montreal for three years and never had the chance to go, but – at least in my community here, I haven’t had the opportunity to find one. And so what we did is we decided that we wanted to create one. And that’s basically what the goal was: so we have the Rosedale Club as a result.
Goldsbie: How did you choose the name “The Rosedale Club”?
Paikin: We thought it was actually a funny name. It’s meant to be tongue-in-cheek. Number one, it doesn’t actually meet in Rosedale (which is what’s funny), and number two is the three co-founders of the club are Jewish, and obviously The Rosedale Club sounds like something that back in the 1930s or 40s or 50s, Jews in Toronto would not be allowed to attend. And, you know, back in the day you saw signs, “No Jews or Dogs Allowed.” Social clubs, golf courses, hospitals, restaurants, etc. would have signs like that. And to celebrate Canada’s diversity and the rights that every single group in Canada has now, we decided to call it that to basically say, you know, we’ve arrived it’s meant to be funny.
Goldsbie: So it’s sort of like you’re throwing back to another era, doing the sort of things you wish your parents or grandparents would have been able to do?
Paikin: You could put it that way. I mean, it’s a celebration of Canada’s freedom, diversity, and fantasticness, if you will.
Goldsbie: Why the scotch and cigars and suits? Why the suits-only policy?
Paikin: So what we wanted to do is to ensure that we could have a forum for in-depth conversation and civil discourse, and if we just had people come in dressed however, and we had, you know, beer and vodka and whatever, the result would have been like a house party. And there’s no shortage of house parties. What we wanted to do was create an actual forum in which in-depth conversation is maximized, and that you get, I think, when the event appears to be more formal. But as you’ve seen so far, it’s mostly schmoozing, it’s mostly a lot of friends just getting together and having a good time.
Goldsbie: Were you surprised by the online backlash, not just for this one but for the past couple of them, and how people have reacted?
Paikin: We wanted to make sure that everything was out on social media to make sure that it was a welcoming event. We wanted to make sure that anybody, no matter what their origins, no matter what their political beliefs or any other determinant was, that they could come and feel welcome and feel invited to the event. There are some people who don’t necessarily agree with the premise of the event, but we encourage them to come and would love to invite them to come over and to see what it’s like and have a good time and hopefully become regular attendees.
Goldsbie: Would you describe it as public or semi-public or semi-private or…?
Paikin: It’s a public event, absolutely, we’ve never turned anybody down at the door. We’ve had lots of new people come. A lot of the critics, actually, on Twitter and on Facebook have come, last month and this month and have contributed to the conversation and have been absolutely fantastic. You know, we’ve really enjoyed their presence.
Goldsbie: Do you understand what people took issue with this month, with Jonathan Kay and (originally-slated) former premier Eves speaking about this subject?
Paikin: Well, it’s something that both of them have either written about or dealt with over the course of their time in either media or politics, and I think that they had some interesting thoughts to impart. If anybody disagreed with their thoughts or wanted to bring a different perspective, we encourage them to come and to make their views known. And to ask questions. I mean, there are no views that are taboo at these events, and we hope that people come and create a more vigourous yet respectful conversation.
Goldsbie: How old are you? People have been asking me that. I’m guessing 22 or 23…?
Paikin: I’m turning 22 next month.
Goldsbie: You’ve obviously been involved in politics for quite some time, and you ran for policy chair of the Liberal Party a couple years ago? Did you get that?
Paikin: No, I was unfortunately unsuccessful but came close.
Goldsbie: Okay. So, I mean, you have political ambitions yourself?
Paikin: Right now, I’m just very happy to be involved in the Liberal Party to support Justin Trudeau, and I’m gonna do whatever I can to make sure that he becomes prime minister.
Goldsbie: What would you like to be doing 10, 20 years from now? In terms of, where do you see it all going? You’re obviously building a profile for youself, connecting, meeting a lot of people. You have 5000, the limit, of Facebook friends. I’m just curious, what do you see down the road?
Paikin: I just wanna keep staying involved in these causes, I wanna keep advocating for social progress, for Aboriginal rights, I wanna keep advocating for gay rights, LGBTQ rights in general, transgender rights, women’s rights, minority rights. I wanna advocate for fiscal responsibility, I wanna advocate for a more present and more forceful and more liberal and more fair Canada in the world. And I wanna keep doing that. I’m really enjoying what I’m doing.
Goldsbie: There was one discussion you had on Twitter in particular… You suggested, basically, that Jewish people are not white. Is that your opinion?
Paikin: That’s my opinion. Jewish people are people of Middle Eastern origin. They are more ethnically similar – and DNA tests confirm this – to, say, Arabs or other Semitic people than they are to white people. There was a test that came out recently, it was reported in Haaretz, that shows that 90% of Jews are of Levantine origin the only exceptions are, if I recall correctly: Ethiopian, Georgian, and Indian Jews. Which, I guess, are at the extremities of where the Jewish exile took place and hence, you know, really assimilated with the people who are there. But the Jewish people have a long, more-than-3000-year-long history in the Land of Israel, in the Middle East, and I don’t think that it’s appropriate to call Jews quote-unquote “white” or to label them “white,” just like it wouldn’t be appropriate to call Arabs “white,” unless we consider all those people to be white and others to be not white – which is one point of view that I’ve heard in the past – but I think it’s better to celebrate our diversity.
Goldsbie: Would you consider yourself a person of colour?
Paikin: I would consider myself to be an ethnic minority.
Goldsbie: Because of the Jewish background?
Paikin: Yeah.
Goldsbie: I mean, like, I’m also Jewish, going back however many countless generations, and I consider myself white. I’m just curious, would you think that would be incorrect?
Paikin: I guess you have the right to consider yourself to be whatever you want to be. That’s fine. I think if you look at Jews from Sephardic or Mizrahi origin, I think you can tell very quickly that their skin colour is not white. And the average skin colour in Israel is darker than the average skin colour in Syria, for example. So I think that labeling Jews as white is probably not constructive. And I think that simply labeling various different European peoples as white is not constructive. I think there are various different cultures there it’s good to celebrate our diversity. Now, you know, maybe people from Europe are actually white, but no mind. My opinion is: Jews should not qualify, in my opinion at least, as white. Feel free to disagree.
Goldsbie: In terms of the term “visible minority” – would you say it’s a visible minority?
Paikin: Well, it depends. I guess I’m an invisible minority. But if you’re a Jew of Mizrahi or a Jew of Sephardic origin, I guess you would be a visible minority. In either way, we’re a minority. And listen: LGBTQ people are, in many cases, invisible minorities. And that doesn’t mean that their rights should not be celebrated and that they should not have the right to be who they are and to know that deep in their heart that they have that distinction through much of society. And diversity is our strength, and that’s Toronto’s motto, and I’m born and raised in Toronto: I’m proud to have that as a motto as well.
This is a somewhat edited and condensed transcript of Cameron Monkman’s address to The Rosedale Club.
Tonight I’m here to represent the First Nations community. I’m actually thrilled to be here, and also a little disgusted.
I think it’s important that the First Nations community is recognized, because Stephen Harper is not in the right seat right now, is not in any condition to be representing the Native people whatsoever. And, you know, I think to myself when I came here: How can you guys, as politicians, as big head honchos like myself, be making changes when Stephen Harper can’t meet with a couple of kids to address certain issues in the Native community? I think, we’re tired of the payouts, we’re tired of handouts, and everything that’s been given to us. It’s not about being paid for our land. I think that we need to be respected. I think our cultures need to be respected. You know, I smudge, so being a hip-hop artist and being who I am as an artist. You know, I tend to go out and socialize. Smoke the odd joint. You know, I support that. I support going out, having fun, having the odd drink. But I don’t mix that with cultural values: sage, sweetgrass, cedar.
So when it comes time for Native Rights, our rights need to be respected, our lands need to be respected. All the reserves that we have – they’re colonized, you know what I’m saying, so it’s not really part of our culture, in a sense where we feel comfortable. Because I come from a background, Lake Manitoba First Nation, where people are bickering amongst each other, gossiping and bringing each other down, as a part of colonization: that’s not right.
So I came here tonight to support my Native people against Stephen Harper. Because if a political power is willing to make a change and stand up and back us as First Nations people, then this is where we need to stand. I’m not here because I want to make money, I’m not here because I want to sell out: I’m here because I’m representing my First Nations community. And I think that it’s important that our community as Native people have somebody they can trust and represent. I come from a harsh background. I’ve struggled: pain, violence, murder, drugs, sexual, rape, and stuff like that. So when I actually place myself in this category in a political format, it’s a little difficult, so pardon my French.
I think that people in the political power need to do more than what they’re doin’ right now. Stephen Harper needs to be out of his seat, you know what I’m saying?
People say “Hear, hear,” “Yep,” etc.
And people believe that they can help the First Nations community do it. Don’t just talk about it, don’t just go on camera and look beautiful: do it. You know what I’m sayin’. My girlfriend depends on me to be the leader also (and she said she’d break up with me if I quit my career, by the way).
Laughter.
So I’m actually here because I believe that we really can’t take that step forward unless we’re able to trust the people. Just because people are here in suits, it doesn’t mean that we can’t trust you, you know what I’m sayin’. Stephen Harper is his own person. I’m not gonna say, “You’re Stephen Harper, you’re Stephen Harper, you’re Stephen Harper.”
More laughter. Someone says, “That’s probably a good idea.”
That’s not how it works. Because each and every individual person is entitled to respect. I came here tonight, I wanted to smash somebody. Because I was so pissed off. And I apologize for my comrades egging the house earlier. But I can’t blame them for expressing their feelings.
The crowd has to be quieted down a bit. “Shhh.”
I think it’s important that we need to address the Native issues as such. So, being Native, we need access to natural things: sage, sweetgrass, tobacco. We need our land, we need people willing to work together. ‘Cause it’s not about the white man, it’s not about taking over the land. It’s about working together. And if you guys want to be politicians, I respect that I wanna be a rapper, I wanna change the world, I wanna travel. You know, I want Stephen Harper out of his seat right now, you know what I’m sayin’.
Another “Hear, hear.”
But! I think it’s great that we all work together to try and change the community. And I’m wearing a Haudenosaunee badge right here. I call it a badge. It’s not even a pin, it’s a badge, because I’m representing right now, tonight, not just the Ojibway community, but the Haudenosaunee community, and their two members are like: one goes and smoothly flows. The other one? Well, we can’t break, we can’t cross paths, because we’re not meant to cross paths in this community, we’re meant to work together. And if people can’t work together, then they don’t belong in this community: they’re not willing to work in solidarity in sovereign nations.
I am here because I believe that political power can make a change with the right people.
Someone shouts, “Woo!”
In other words, evil shit can be good if it’s in a good hands.
Activist Zach Ruiter asks, “But what about the tar sands?” Paikin says that’s another topic. Monkman wants to talk about it, anyway.
That’s gotta stop. You’re destroying Native land. All these corporate organizations that want to feed their families with work and employment, I get that. But! Respect Native rights! Respect Native land! Don’t destroy Native land and Mother Earth, you know what I’m sayin’. Because that’s something that will effect us in the long run.
Finishing off, I just wanna say that I think Native people should have a right to their land, our land. You know, we didn’t say that we couldn’t share. We didn’t say that we couldn’t work together as a community in solidarity to try to make things work. That’s what it’s all about.
So when you hear my music, and you hear me say “Fuck that guy! Fuck him! Fuck you!” You know, it’s not about “fuck you” and all that stuff. It’s about me being upset, because that’s how I feel. Y’know what I mean? I can be involved in hip hop and say what I feel because that’s how I feel. Hip hop will not fight me, will not arrest me, will not rape me and torture me in prison because that’s how I feel. Hip hop is something that allows me to express how I feel as a person and as an artist. I’m not goin’ out there gangbanging, shootin’ people up, ’cause that’s what I feel. Sometimes that’s what I feel. You know what I’m sayin’, I own a .45, but that don’t make me a man. It makes me a man when I stand up in front of people like yourselves and tell you that this is what’s goin’ on in the community, this is what needs to be addressed, and this is what needs to be stopped today.
Applause.
The day that we make a change is the day that we’ll be able to say we’re moving in solidarity. Until then – to all my fellow friends, fans, family, people, supporters – this is something that you’re gonna have to take a close look at, because, y’know what I’m sayin’. The people need us to be there for them. They don’t need us because we need our tax dollars at work, they don’t need us because we need to eat we need a nice big mansion and our nice fuckin’ Lamborghini. It’s not about that. I’m about hip hop. Because it saved my life from drugs, violence, gangs, sexual abuse and all that stuff. It helped me. And I’m here today, 2013, I’m proud to be here, big ups to Vinnie Paz, Immortal Technique, Test Their Logik and everybody else who has inspired me to make a positive change.
And I’m actually here to finally finish and say this: Power to the people.
He puts his fist in the air. Paikin goes over to him. They hug.
