Two weeks ago, we heard speculative reports that Apu Nahasapeemapetilon would be quietly ushered off The Simpsons after a three-decade run. Comedian Hari Kondabolu immediately tweeted his condolences: “RIP Apu. RIP My Mentions.”
Kondabolu is a comic navigating current U.S. politics from an Indian-American lens, as seen on his Netflix stand-up special Warn Your Relatives. He’s also the man behind The Problem With Apu, a documentary taking The Simpsons to task for its stereotypical depiction of an Indian immigrant with an exaggerated accent, voiced by Hank Azaria.
In an appearance on Totally Biased, Kondabolu described Azaria’s voice work as “a white guy doing an impression of a white guy making fun of my father.”
The Simpsons struggled with how to respond to the conversation Kondabolu stirred. The show first shrugged it off in an episode that had young Lisa betray her own SJW values and dismiss this new-era PCness. That only made things worse. So now there’s talk that they’re killing off Apu and rabid fans on Twitter are blaming Kondabolu.
“It’s ridiculous,” says Kondabolu. “I’ve been getting death threats for the last week from all over the world. People telling me they want my whole family to die.”
I’m speaking to Kondabolu on midterm election day, immediately after he returned home from voting. We’re gearing up for his keynote conversation on Saturday at the Reel Asian Film Festival, which I’ll be moderating. We plan to examine and celebrate the space being made for Asian voices in media, from Crazy Rich Asians to Hasan Minaj’s new late-night show Patriot Act.
As I’m typing these words, a Spanish-speaking troll (because apparently Simpsons fandom is really huge in South America) just tweeted to Kondabolu: “Que te calles te digo!!” According to Twitter, that translates to “I said shut up!”
It’s a telling snapshot of how representation in mainstream media works. These trolls want the new diverse voice to shut up because they would rather keep listening to the white guy putting on the funny accent.
And one thing is immediately clear to Kondabolu: everyone who blames him for killing off Apu clearly didn’t see The Problem With Apu.
“I never asked to get rid of the character,” he says, reiterating his own disappointment in that decision. “Oh, the immigrant’s an issue. Your solution shouldn’t be let’s get rid of the immigrant. It should be, ‘How do we make this work?’”
Kondabolu admits The Simpsons is still his favourite show, saying he should be able to love a show while also pointing out why aspects of it could be harmful.
“This was an analysis of media. Do you know where I learned to do media analysis? The Simpsons. That’s the show that used to make fun of pop-culture – that and SNL. That’s how I learned how to be smart and critical.”
Kondabolu’s critics counter that everyone on The Simpsons is a stereotype, the show cloaking itself in that “democratically offensive” category that is often wielded as a carte blanche to say anything and everything.
His documentary doesn’t disagree with that, but also points out that for South Asians, there was no other representation in media growing up apart from Apu to counter the stereotype. Apu spoke for all South Asians in America and (considering The Simpsons’ long, sustained global reach) beyond. Kondabolu’s trolls equate such criticism to an attack on freedom of speech, an argument that’s inflamed by the character’s possible removal.
“I can’t control freedom of speech,” he says. “I use freedom of speech to question how somebody else uses freedom of speech. That’s how freedom of speech works.”
Kondabolu’s film has also been taken to task for a section comparing Apu to minstrelsy. In the Guardian, writer Bhaskar Sunkara calls comparing the South Asian experience to the African-American experience a “glib and ahistorical understanding of oppression in America.”
“In my documentary, it’s worded very poorly on my part,” says Kondabolu, reflecting on the section where he visits Whoopi Goldberg and discusses her collection of Black Americana, props, decor, ads and even cookie jars with racist caricatures.
“His point is well taken, and I agree with him,” says Kondabolu about Sunkara’s argument and other points defending why Apu was more than just a mockery.
“To say that Apu is the same as minstrelsy isn’t true. There is a lineage that I believe Apu is connected to. There is a lineage of using us for laughter or using us to sell things, whether it’s a toy or a racist picture or a TV show. We come from that lineage, but to equate our experience with the history of Black Americans, and say it’s the same, is false.”
But Kondabolu also points back to the larger argument in that section.
“This is a capitalist enterprise,” says Kondabolu, speaking to both The Simpsons and entertainment at large. “They didn’t make this show for us. Anything that is made in this country, historically, is not made from the majority to the minority. It’s made for other white people. When Apu was found funny, it was a room of white writers that found it funny and put it out for a majority white audience.”
Kondabolu points back to his conversation with Goldberg, when she reflects on the minstrel memorabilia she has, particularly a menu from the Coon Chicken Inn. Kondabolu makes a comment in the film on how that was a way to mock African-Americans.
In the film, Goldberg counters: “I don’t even think it was that deep… I don’t think they were thinking, ‘Oh, we’re gonna get em’ now.’ I think they were thinking, ‘That’s funny.’”
“They’re trying to sell cookie jars,” Kondabolu says, in retrospect. “It’s not about hurting people. It’s about making money.”
He then reflects on the comments in the film from The Simpsons writer Dana Gould when explaining Apu. “There are accents that, by their nature, to white Americans sound funny,” says Gould. “Period.”
“What he’s saying is, ‘I gotta make cookie jars,’” says Kondabolu. “This isn’t about right or wrong. This isn’t about what the best choice is. It’s about: this is effective we need to pump these episodes out we have to make sure the laughs are there. I’m making cookie jars!”
Keynote: Hari Kondabolu, at the Reel Asian International Film Festival, Saturday (November 10), 8 pm, TIFF Bell Lightbox. $25.15-$27.15. reelasian.com. See more Reel Asian coverage here.
