Olivia Chow insists she’s “having a great deal of fun” campaigning.
Indeed, as she sat down for an interview with NOW Magazine’s editorial board Monday morning, Chow was her usual positive self. Dressed in a bright fuchsia button-up, she talked about hope, progress, and her vision for a better city.
But the latest opinion polls paint a gloomy picture for the progressive standard-bearer, who entered the race in March as the front-runner only to find herself wallowing in third place with only three weeks to go before the October 27 election. A Mainstreet Technologies poll released Monday shows John Tory has 47 per cent support among decided voters, Doug Ford has 31 per cent, and Chow has 22 per cent.
In a wide-ranging hour-long discussion at the magazine’s Church Street offices, Chow talked about why discrediting Tory’s “back-of-the-napkin” transit proposal is key to turning her campaign around, whether she believes Toronto is still a progressive city, the racism she’s encountered at mayoral debates, and the pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong.
The following is an edited and condensed version of our conversation.
NOW has invited the two other leading candidates to speak with our editorial board as well. We’re still waiting for confirmation.
Polls show John Tory’s support is holding steady. Do you believe your criticism of his SmartTrack plan is hitting home?
Chow: “I don’t pretend to understand polls. I’ll leave it for the pundits.
“Four years ago we had a candidate that said subways, subways, subways. We didn’t get all the subways that we want built. So four years later we have another candidate that come out with this grand scheme, which is not feasible. So I think it’s important that I keep contrasting his back-of-the-napkin plan with my fully-costed, comprehensive plan.”
Tory has positioned himself as a middle-of-the-road candidate, while you believe he’s actually right-of-centre. How do you convince voters he’s not showing his true colours?
“In a campaign, he can make all types of promises. He said he’ll build affordable housing, he’ll take care of children and seniors and make the TTC accessible. He’s saying anything to get elected, which makes it really hard. He makes himself sound like he’s progressive, and he’s not. He’s a conservative.”
But how do you convince the public of that?
“Questioning whether he’s being honest with people. If he’s not being with this transit scheme, then he’s not being honest and upfront about anything else.”
[Jamey Heath, Chow’s communication director, chimes in.]
Heath: “For the first time probably in any Toronto mayoral campaign, you have the Toronto Star and CFRB cheering for the same candidate [John Tory]. So in a normal race, you would have some validation from the self-described “progressive” media outlet when you make a progressive charge against a conservative candidate. It is very difficult to get that message through in this election campaign.”
Last time around, Ford got elected. Doug Ford is still polling respectably. Are we in a new political era where truth and real issues don’t matter?
“For far too long, the people of this city have been driven to vote based on fear rather than having a better future. You see it. People are saying ‘Oh Ford! Baaaah!’ [she bangs her hands on the table in mock horror]. They don’t even think about anything else.
“This innate fear is driving some of the progressive people to say, ‘Olivia, love your platform, love your track record, I know you’d do a good job, but I’m worried about Ford.'”
So you need to convince people Doug Ford can’t win.
“Doug Ford can’t win, it’s true. There’s not a chance he’s going to win. Not a chance.”
Is this election a personality contest?
“No, it shouldn’t be. Elections shouldn’t be a personality contest.”
But is that what we have?
“I’ll let you judge that.”
The NDP didn’t fare well in the last provincial election, and your old federal seat went to the Liberals in a by-election this summer. Voters elected Rob Ford in 2010. Do you believe Toronto is still a progressive city?
“Absolutely. We have a lot of very generous, good people… very progressive in wanting to share what we have with each other. We have a city where we have so many people from every corner of the world and yet we live in harmony. We are a very progressive city. That’s why we deserve better, a much better mayor.”
You just released a TV ad in which you highlight your own experience and the diversity of the city. Have you considered a negative ad? A John Tory attack ad?
“I’ve been attacking John Tory. Is it not strong enough? At yesterday’s all candidates meeting I spent most of the time – in fact I asked him four times – how he is going to do his SmartTrack.
“I don’t like to attack a person in a personal manner, I’d much rather go after a person’s policy. Now, if you think that’s not strong enough…”
An attack ad about his policies, then?
[Heath steps in again]
Heath: “You go back to the first debate of this campaign, which was on CityTV, and the media came away from that debate appalled that not a single candidate went at Rob Ford with crack and booze. The only person to ask a direct question of Rob Ford was Olivia, and it was about why he was leaving low-income people behind at the bus stop. That was not considered to be a tough attack because it didn’t involve drugs. I argued at the time, strenuously, that that is the attack that should be made.
“In answer to your question about will this campaign consider attack ads on John Tory – the answer is yes. I can assure you that I am spending large portions of my day considering that.”
What is the path that would see you gain 20 points in three weeks and win the election?
Chow: “A lot of people actually make up their mind in the last five days, the last few days in the election. There’s always a tipping point.
“Mr. Tory’s ads, signs, literature, is all about this so-called [transit] plan. And I think at some point people will say, ‘Do I really believe that? Is this a person that I can really trust to be my mayor?’ And when that happens, I believe it will tip.”
At the ArtsVote debate, all the candidates said they were behind the arts. Why is your arts policy superior to the others’?
“For one, it’s good to elect an artist to be the mayor. I’m a lot more creative than they are. Art is the core of who I am.”
From the start of the campaign you pledged to keep taxes low. Was that something you had to do in order to defend against the accusation that you’re a “tax-and-spend” politician?
“I never said that I would keep taxes low. That’s John Tory’s line. I said ‘around the rate of inflation,’ which is a bit flexible. This year the property tax is around the rate of inflation because the extra is the billion-dollar subway money. I could say ‘around the rate of inflation’ because I’m not proceeding with the billion-dollar Scarborough subway.”
How flexible is “around the rate of inflation”?
“We’ll see. On your property tax there’s an extra piece in it because of the ice storm. I can’t predict whether we’ll have another flood or ice storm.”
What would Toronto look like under Mayor John Tory?
“I’m seriously worried because if he proceeds with his transit scheme the city will have to borrow so much money, which is going to be financially very, very difficult. Service will have to be cut, or they will do nothing in terms of public transit improvement. Really we would have a city that would see no improvement in people’s livelihood.
“Remember, Rob Ford did not tell you they’re going to close a fire station, he didn’t tell you that TTC fares are going to go up while the service goes down, he didn’t tell people that recreation fees are going to go up, he didn’t tell people he wanted to close libraries. So, John Tory probably will do the same.”
What do you think about the protests in Hong Kong?
“I support democracy, I believe every vote should count. I hope there’s a peaceful resolution.”
One of your proposals is to make Toronto a hub for trading Chinese currency. Might that limit us in our ability to criticize the Chinese government?
“No I don’t believe that at all. Because a trading hub is a trading hub. It’s not doing actual business with China. I was at every June 4 Tiananmen Square memorial. But in the meantime I can say that we should have the Chinese currency trading hub in Toronto. I don’t see that there’s a conflict there.”
At the Joseph Piccinnini Centre debate last week, a member of the audience directed anti-immigrant comments at you. Were you surprised by that?
“No I’m not. When I first launched there was a huge number of very racist, very sexist comments. And every time I have a bit more profile, I see these. It’s hateful, and I got a lot more of it than the other candidates.
“What’s surprising is that the other candidates didn’t say anything. They just sat there. I thought they should comment.”
What is your message to people that are afraid to vote for you because they don’t want Doug Ford to win?
“Vote for a better city. Don’t vote based on fear. If we want real progress, a place where everyone counts, a mayor that you can trust, vote Olivia Chow.”
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